Conversation with Pumping Iron star and Mr.
Universe, Mike Katz ( with some words from Mike Katz, Jr)
By Dr. Michael Dusa
North Haven, Connecticut February 22, 2015
I have been blessed
to be friends with and have as a mentor for nearly 40 years with bodybuilding
icon, Mike Katz. Here are Big Mike's words on what is going on in his busy
life.
MD: Mike, back in
your bodybuilding training days, what did Bodybuilders do for cardio training?
MK: Well, our
training was so intense that we derived a cardio effect from the rapidity of
the sets we performed. Before I ever went to California, a workout here in
Connecticut would be plodding and methodical... It could take four hours for a
workout to be done. When I went to train with Arnold, the same workout would
take 1.5 hours- NO rest between sets- there was much more punishment training
with him and the Gold's Gym crew. For instance, we would do "The Rack,"
as we called it. This was drop sets starting with standing dumbbell presses
with 110 pounds in each hand, drop to 85 pounds, go to failure, to 55, down to
40, even 30 pounders-we'd do five sets going down the line, or, " The
Rack," it was brutal. Arnold liked to train legs with me because he hated
doing legs, and I loved to. My motivation pushed him to bring up his thighs,
which early on were not on par with his upper body.
 |
| Mike training with Arnold |
MD: You are known for one of the greatest chests
in the history of bodybuilding. I'm sure folks would like to hear your thoughts
on chest work.
MK: Well, guys today strike the side chest pose
with somewhat of a twist to their torso because most don't have a good rib age
development and many don't have lower biceps development. Al Beckles, Larry
Scott and Arnold all had these ingredients, so they could really hit this pose
and hit it properly. Franco did not have much of a rib cage or great bicep so
you know he always did the variation of the standard side chest pose. Franco's
famous split in his chest is almost like an abnormality in his structure.
Myself- well, I've been born with a much higher xiphoid process than the
average person. The tip of my sternum is high... My xiphoid is 8-9 inches
higher from the navel than the average person, whose distance is maybe 3-4
inches. So, I had the capacity to build a much more volumetric rib cage.
Another thing- many who even bother to do dumbbell pullovers today don't do
them correctly. A dumbbell should be used, fingers interlocked on the bar,
elbows tucked in, laying across the bench with head hanging off, hips down, no
spreading of the lats. Doing so isolates the rib cage. Of course there will be
some lat stimulation, but with the elbows held close and hips down, if you
really concentrate you'll target the rib cage.
My favorite
chest exercise is the dumbbell incline bench press. I feel overall this is the
best exercise for chest development. At the top the dumbbells should touch, you
should, at this point, lift, tense the pecs, contract and squeeze the muscle at
the top of the movement. Bring your elbows down to armpit level- this spares
you from shoulder injury. Barbell flat bench hurts the shoulders, largely
because you don't have freedom of hand movement like you do with Dumbbells. Your
movements should always be controlled and you should think about why you are
doing an exercise. Squatting, for instance. I'd concentrate on the negative in
the movement, go down slowly just below seated position, always pause, with no
bounce. Same for chest and every body part. I was never really injured lifting
weights.
MD: What did your eating consist of back then
Mike?
MK: I'd eat four pounds of meat per day. It came
in one pound packs- these were specifically cut by my butcher, and after
broiling them there was ONLY blood left in the foil. There was no fat. I'd have
pasta every third day, oatmeal for energy, a piece of fruit, always and only
whole eggs- we'd use cholesterol as an energy source because of very intense
workouts. Of course I'd be given supplements by Joe Weider, but we were all
quite fond of Rheo Blair's products. I'd have a protein drink twice per day.
Desiccated liver tablets were a big thing back then. Funny, some guys seemed to
think they'd help their liver, even though the science didn't make sense. Of
course there was both Hoffman and Joe, and " Protein of the Sea,"
which smelled worse than low tide in New Jersey! So then they'd load products
with sugar, which defeated the purpose, but things tasted better.
MD:Mike, what encouraged you to first pick up a
weight?
MK: When I was 11 or 12 years old, I went to the
theater and saw the first Hercules movie Steve Reeves ever made in 1957. It was
akin to a kid seeing Arnold in Conan at the same age- it had a profound effect
on me. So of course I got the Weider courses in the mail- George Eiferman and
Clancy Ross were featured- and I pasted their pictures on my basement wall. The
routine was like chest/ biceps one day, legs the next. I " borrowed"
some milk crates from the side of the road, built a primitive bench, and the guy
across the street gave me some weights.
Soon I was training at the Meriden YMCA with Joe
LaPorte, who helped me immensely and was also a great area bodybuilder. He was
one step below the great Joe Abbenda, who of course went on to win the Mr.
America. My first bodybuilding contest was when I was 14,
held in Waterbury, Connecticut- I didn't place. In fact , I competed for about
three years before I even got a third place trophy. I did finally win the
Teenage Mr Connecticut when I was 18 or 19, and by then I was also vying for
honors in the Ct open division. You must understand that I was a three sport
athlete in high school- competing in hockey, track and football. I also played
football at Southern Connecticut State University ( Mike is enshrined in their
athletic halal of fame). Of course I was also with the NY Jets of the old AFL.
So I always had a lot going on, but I still always trained. It took me four
years to win the IFBB Mr. America, losing to Chuck Sipes, Frank Zane and John
Decola.
Interesting thing that many don't know is the
America, World and Olympia would often be held the same night, and we had body
part awards. But not for each show. A guy from the America may find himself
competing with a guy from the Olympia onstage for best chest. Arnold beat me
early on for best chest, but only once. I beat him and others for best chest
several times after.
MD: Mike, how receptive was the football world to
your training with weights back in the sixties?
 |
| Mike Katz (#32) during his football days |
MK: well, Jess Dow, our cosh at SCSU, didn't
really understand the value of weight training. He'd hear me tossing the
weights around and coming running in from his office and holler,"Hell's
Bells boy, what the hell are you doing? We have a game tomorrow!" But he'd
pretty much leave me be, because he knew come game day, I run over anyone who
got in my way.
My roommate on the Jets was a 65 foot shot putter
from Syracuse University. And we had a great inside linebacker- Jets fans will
know him- named Al Atkinson. We three were the only ones on the Jets who lifted
weights. I was among the faster linemen in the NFL in my time. I can tell you
this, I may not have been faster than him, but I could keep up with NFL Hall of
Famer Don Maynard- and boy was he fast.
In the end, I could have kept playing, but there
was much to consider. An injury, just getting married to my wife Nancy, I
wanted to teach and win Mr. America. It wasn't a hard decision to leave when I
did.
MD: You have a great take on Bodybuilders and
family...
MK: Yea. " Don't wait until you are a
grandfather to be a father."
Of course, this advice can apply to anybody. Most
women today- they work. I worked up to three jobs so my wife could stay home
with little Michael and Michelle. Women today need more. Men do benefit because
now they get to participate more in child raising.
MD: Please talk a bit about Pumping Iron...
MK: Well, the writers of the book, Charles Gaines
and George Butler, from White Mountain, Vermont, were not situated far from
Holyoke/ Mountain Park in Massachusetts- you know, where Ed Jubinville used to
hold his shows. I captured their attention- I was a teacher, football player,
bodybuilder, I was very accessible to them. You know, if they were from
Portland, Oregon, they may have gone with Corney in the film. Things aligned so
it was me.
 |
| Mike Katz competing in the 1975 IFBB Mr. Universe in Pretoria, South Africa. Scene from the movie Pumping Iron. |
You know, I'm 70 years old now so maybe people are
not as quick to recognize me, but they are very kind. Pumping Iron is now on
Netflix, so it's been introduced to whole new generations. It has reinvented me
to a broader and younger audience, giving me new opportunities.
Of course, Arnold pulled the film along. I see him
a few times each year. Franco and Louie too of course. I see Lou more often
because we both frequent the trade shows. I had a small part in Lou's documentary, Stand
Tall, chronicling his comeback for the Master's Olympia, for which I was a
judge. I'll say it was difficult to judge. Robby Robinson was sharper, and Lou
would have won had he been 5-10% sharper. It was actually harder for Robby to
beat a big guy in this scenario. Lou was big and well known, Robby, not so
much.
MD: You were an educator in the Hamden School
System for 35 years...
MK: I feel I was born to teach. The only thing
that has been more satisfying for me is being a parent and grand parent, second
most satisfying is being a teacher. Winning Mr. America was a personal
accomplishment, but the positive effects I had on thousands of kids was a
greater life achievement- I was giving to others. It wasn't about myself.
MD: Along with your longtime business partner and
best friend, Jerry Mastrangelo, and now your son as well, you've been a gym
owner in Connecticut since 1979.
MK: Well, we opened World Gym East in Hamden in
1979. Prior to doing so I asked Arnold and Joe Gold for their blessing and they
were fine with it. For awhile it became Mike Katz Fitness Centers. Then Arnold
called me and said," come with us." So the original Hamden club
became World Gym, for which we never had a license agreement. The second World
Gym we opened in Branford we did have a contract. Now, we have five Planet Fitness gyms. The
industry has changed and continues to do so. CT is very competitive with LA
Fitness, The Edge, Retro, etc. PF has 1,000 gyms nationwide now- seems like
there is a new facility everyday. It's a good business model, I must say.
MD: Mike, I know about ten years ago you were
training a good number of very successful clients.
MK: I still train a handful of clients who have
been my friends for over 20 years. It's a big commitment, training someone.
It's a big part of their life that I am navigating. I'm not saying training
people is completely off the table, it depends on the person and other factors.
I do spend a lot of time with my grand kids now.
When you care, training someone is draining. It
takes a colossal amount of energy. You are dealing with inferiority complexes,
self esteem issues, dedication, self confidence- these are complicated issues
to deal with. You have to look at one's driving force. You may
have a mountain to climb, and for this you have to have the desire to conquer.
Often, when you have such a concrete goal in life, there is not a lot of room
for other things in life until the mountain is climbed.
I need to ascertain what somebody is motivated by
to accomplish their chosen impossible task. It's interesting that there are
many common denominators in people who are successful. Dom Certo wrote " Success, Pure and
Simple" in the 70's. I was one of the people from all walks of life who
was highlighted. It compared common traits that we all shared. The funny thing
is Weider pulled some strings for Certo to be " Knighted" in England,
so he became Sir Domenic Certo ( laughs). Everybody gets a kick out of this.
Weider thought if he was knighted his words would be more powerfully
persuasive.
MD: Please speak of the pioneering nutrition
company you were involved with in the 70's.
In 40 years, I've had 80 calls to endorse
nutrition products- 2 calls per year. I'd look over the product and see that
the first ingredient would be sugar. I'd say no thanks. I couldn't and still
won't promote a product lacking " White Papers," meaning there is no
scientific research backing the product.
Michael, my son, and his wife Pam Katz introduced
me to Qivana. When I saw that this company's research was supported by Dr. Don
Layman, who is world renown as the " Father of Metabolism," this was
a big key. Since using these products I've lost over 40 pounds- and with very
little exercise. I feel great, physically and emotionally. The product balances
out your metabolism. I'll admit I actually threw a few poses the other day (
laughs)!
MD: you have a naturally big frame...
MK: Yes. I was well suited for bodybuilding
success. Look at Sergio Olivia- he just had "it". We'd look at him
and say, " That's just not possible...", he was one in a million.
Arnold and I had to train much harder than Sergio to be as good as him.
MD: at what point do you think you reached your
best ever form?
MK: 1972 Mr. World win. I also liked my shape in
my final show, the 1981 Olympia- I was drug free in this show and took a blood
test to prove it. Beating Ken Waller in the World was also very satisfying.
When folks ask about Franco winning, some say he left his wheel chair and plaid
blanket backstage. That show, Dickerson or even a few others could have won. Of
course Chris stayed quiet and won the next year. If Mentzer won in 1980, would
he be alive today? Would his brother Ray be alive today? Szkalak, Callender,
maybe they didn't get their due. Harold Poole, maybe he should have won the Mr.
O.
I will say you need more than a great body. Sergio
was a cop. Most Mr O's are successful outside of bodybuilding. Lee Lee Haney? I
hold him in the highest of regards, he is a great example of a human being.
Bill Pearl too. Dave Draper even with all the problems he's had- a great
person. I feel we should learn from the past, realize the
future, and live in the present.
MD: how is your health these days Mike?
MK: I had an aortic aneurysm four years back. I
was lucky it was discovered during another procedure. It can kill you
instantly.If you are reading this and can afford one or have medical insurance
please get an ultrasound of the ascending and descending aorta. Find out if you
have an aneurysm. So, a week before I was scheduled to judge the Arnold, I was
scheduled for aoric repair surgery. I skipped the Arnold obviously. The surgery
was successful and I also received a pacemaker as I have suffered from A-fib.
My surgeon, Dr. Squiteri, was a big Pumping Iron fan, coincidentally.
Darn those Steelers! I was watching Pittsburgh vs.
Cincinatti one Sunday, and, during halftime, I went to fix a leak on my roof. I
wanted to get back in to see the game and was using an inadequate ladder. I
fell 12 feet to the ground and at 270 pounds my wife apparently heard the
"thud." I joke that she came outside and kicked me because she
thought I was joking. Turned out I broke every rib on my left side, fractured
three lumbar vertebrae, Had a brain bleed, and developed pneumonia. You know,
the ribs. Even a brusied rib will keep an NFL guy out six weeks. I fractured
all of the on the left.I was in the hospital for four weeks, and the doctors
did say that the great shape I was in kept me alive.
MD: How about your long involvement with the
Special Olympics?
MK: I remember when I was in college and Kennedy
was assassinated-Jackie Kennedy came to Bowen Field where we played our games
and JFK Jr as a little boy was with her. I think he'd have been president had he
lived. She inspired me to get involved with the Special Olympics. I cheered the
kids on, taught them lifting techniques, now younger folks have assumed my
place. I did teach special needs kids for 35 years. I loved it. I myself
overcame much in life and I wanted to give back to the world just as it gave to
me.
MD: You have been a bodybuilding judge at every
level seeminly for ages.
MK: For a long time, I was the only former
professional bodybuilder who was also an Olympia judge. Since, we have had
Gaspari, Al Beckles and Dorian Yates, too. But I've been judging the longest. I
still judge the Arnold, Olympia, the Toronto Pro Show and this year I am
excited about traveling to judge th Arnold in Brazil.
As far as what has changed, well, look at it like
this.In pro football, guys are 50 pounds heavier and .4-.5 seconds faster in
the 40 than they were 25 years ago. In bodybuilding its the same. The diet,
chemicals, training, everything has advanced. A 6'8" guy who used to go
into basketball may now become a tight end in football, and be faster and run
like a deer.
Evolution of sports in the past 20 years shows
that it would take 20,000 years for ligaments and connective tissues to keep up
with these bodily changes. Its not all good. Since athletes are perhaps 50%
better than they were 20 years ago, you see more head injuries and such. Cars
now go 90 miles an hour instead of 60 mph, so injuries are worse. In football,
head protection is still inadequate. You may start seeing where no head contact
at all is permitted. Parents will direct their kids to play soccer sinetad of
football. Things will shift.
Judging today at the Olympia level, I will say
this. Everybody must be in top shape. The current Mr. Olympia must be better
each year or he wont win. The top five or ten guys are ALL great, and the
current winner, if he is not at least a bit better than his previous winning
condition, he probably wont win.
Flex Wheeler had the genetic ability Phil Heath
now has. But Flex never came within 80% of his potential. He was great, don't
get me wrong. However, If I had his genetics, nobody would EVER beat me. The
reality is Flex left 20% on the table. Heath is like a young Flex who is
hungry. I wish I had his genetics. I'd have been the best
ever.
MD: Thanks so much Mike. You have given a gift to
us all with your words.
MK: It was my pleasure. Anytime!
Now, a few words with Mike Katz, Jr., many of you
knowing him from his cameo in the immortal Pumping Iron.
MD: Hey Junior. Tell us what is what like being
the son of Mr. Universe.
Jr: Well, it was a no-brainer that I was on my
best behavior. But in those times that I'd maybe slip up a bit, my mom would
always remind me of the looming prospect of Big Mike's impending return home
(laughs).
MD: Were you around a lot of bodybuilders growing
up?
Jr: Yes, it was great. I remember when I was seven
years old and Robby Robinson was staying at our house. Dad and him were running
the bodybuilding camp that I know you even attended. I was sitting there at the
breakfast table eating a bowl of Apple Jacks, and Robby took one look and said,
"You ain't gonna get big by eating Apple Jacks..." I just kinda
looked at him and that was it. (laughs).
Arnold and Franco also stayed at the house. I was
younger, maybe three or four, so my memory is not as acute. But I do recall
walking into the bedroom Arnold was staying in and he was naked getting
dressed. He looked at me but I bolted from the room and slammed the door
(laughs).
I didn't go to Big Mike's shows but did go to some
exhibitions. I went to George Snyder's "Best in the World" show at
which there were about 10 guest posers , dad being one of them. There was
Mentzer, Corney, Coe, Zane, Arnold (not posing though) and many more. My mother
wondered why I spent so much time around Boyer Coe...I think it may have been
because of his lovely wife, Valerie (laughs).
MD: So, did you ever follow in your father's
famous weight lifting footsteps?
Jr: I started lifting at 11 years old, mostly for
sports. Big Mike said if I wanted to do bodybuilding, he'd help me, but he
preferred I do the regular sports instead. All I remember was all the hard work
he put in, the training, tons and tons of food, low carb days.
MD: It's hard to believe you are 44 years old now.
So many remember you as the little kid hanging on Mr. America's bicep in your
back yard. What was it like when the Pumping Iron cameras arrived?
Jr: They were around on multiple days It was funny
because all the neighborhood kids wanted to come over during filming, and so
all the parents had to sign releases for the kids to be filmed. They were all
psyched to be in the film. Of course, when the film came out, they had all
ended up on the cutting room floor. I took a lot of flak on the bus because of
that (laughs)! All in all, it was a very carefree, fun time.
MD: Mike you look to be in fantastic shape.
Jr: Well, currently I weigh 170, feel great and am
very lean at 5'10" in height. Years ago, I actually bulked up to 240
pounds and was very strong at 20 years old in college. Currently I am the
lightest I have been since age 17, my strength is the best its been in 15
years. I recently lost 40 pounds and have been taking Qivana supplements which
Big Mike also uses now. Pam and I have a Qivana business that we are very
excited about. Anyone interested in such an opportunity can contact me directly
via my Face Book page.
Life is great. Currently, my wife Pam and I have
two daughters, and I am co-owner with Mike and Jerry Mastrangelo of 5 Planet
Fitness gyms here in Connecticut. Time goes on and priorities change. But there
is always time to take good care of yourself.
MD: Mike, I and all our readers thank you for your
time and all the pearls of history you have shared with us.
Jr: Anytime Doc!
Thank you Dr. Michael Dusa
(1995 NPC Mr. Connecticut, USA)
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©,2015. Bodybuilding Mauritius. Any reprinting in any type of media is prohibited. Interview article published with permission from Dr. Michael Dusa (North Haven, Connecticut).
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