The Dusa Interview Series
A Conversation with
World Bodybuilding Champion and IFBB Professional bodybuilder, Dr. Lance
Dreher. By Dr. Michael Dusa
MD: Hi Lance. First, I just want to truly thank you for agreeing
to speaking with me.
LD: I
am happy to, Mike.
MD: Please tell me of your path in the game.
LD: Mike,
I know you know of the times in which I had my beginnings in bodybuilding. I
began in our garage as a kid, as my father had weights at home that he had used
earlier. In the 1950's, he had nineteen inch arms, a 500 pound bench press.
Once, he did enter the Mr. Illinois, but he didn't really do well. In general,
I wasn't encouraged to lift. Bodybuilding was considered weird, done by freaks.
The gyms, in general, were dungeons, filled with crude equipment.
MD: Your father sounded like a powerful guy. How did your body
respond to your early training? Did it seem you had some of your father's
genetics?
 |
| Sporting 20" arms at age 17 circa 1973 |
MD: Those are astounding measurements! I'd think you'd have been
a natural for ball sports.
LD: I
played football in high school and three years of college. I played fullback in
high school, and was on the "A" team. I did blow my knee out,
wrecking my ACL ligament, but retained great speed and power and instead of
halfback, I was switched to fullback and a blocking running back. I played
three years of football at North Central College, but, by the time senior year
had rolled around, I was at odds with the head coach, so that was it for my
gridiron career.
 |
| Aged 17 and training with his dad's weights in a garage gym in Illinois |
MD: The nascent days of bodybuilding were rough ones for many
reasons. Since the general populace seemed so averse to the whole idea of
lifting weights, was it difficult for you to find someone to lend you guidance
in your iron pursuits?
LD: Its true about people looking at lifters with disfavor. The football coaches-they didn't want the weights to take away from football. At the age of 17, I was fortunate to meet Bob Gajda, who, as you know, was a great bodybuilder as well as AAU Mr. America and Mr. Universe. I'd train at his facility and, understand, I'd be around all kinds of professional athletes whom he'd be training. He'd sit me in his office regularly for hours after I'd be done training and just teach me so many things. I will tell you, right off the bat, I was around the best, and Bob was certainly ahead of his time. Mike, to this day, when you hear the term "core" used, that's Bob. He coined that term many years ago.
MD: Amazing. I am happy to say I have Bob scheduled for
interview. I must say, with the size and results you were making so early on in
your training, I'd guess you were competing by this time?
LD: My
first show was the Mr. Chicagoland when I was 17 years old. I was training with
my friend, Frank Palkoska, in his bedroom at his house. As an aside, Frank
later was in the Army and he was the one who put their physical training program
together. We'd train, and then have dinner at his house. I'd then take the bus
home to my house and have dinner again (laughs). So, I entered the show, and
Bob Gajda was the head judge. Soon after I arrived, who walks in but none other
than Sergio Oliva! I just announced to whomever was standing near me that I was
going to simply walk up to him and ask him about his gigantic arms. Sergio told
me he would do 200 pound skull crushers. I was like, that's fine, so I set out
to do the same. I got up to 265 pounds in this lift, doing sets of six reps.
I'd lay on my bench, do a pullover with the weighted bar, and do extensions
with it.
 |
| 1981 IFBB World Championships heavyweight comparison with Reid Schindle and Gunnar Rosbo |
MD: Thus, your legendary, gigantic arms. How did you fare in the
show?
LD: Not
well. But Bob did tell me that he'd train me, and that he felt I could go to
the top in bodybuilding. I soon started winning. In the Junior Mr. Rockford, I
was in the top eight and earned my first trophy. I also annexed best arms and
best back awards. I took the Junior Mr. Chicago. I started winning. It's funny,
looking back, guys started calling me and saying straight out that they'd beat
me in the next show.
MD: What do you mean? They'd just randomly call you on the phone
and call you out?
LD: Yes,
crazy, huh? I'd just carry on. You must understand, I kind of came out of
nowhere.
MD: People feel threatened by change, newness, and assault on
their station. You were still very young at this time, and, as I understand,
still playing football. What was your training and nutrition like?
LD: Even during football season, I'd hit the weights, usually just three times per week to maintain my mass. In college, I was the only player to have a "training table," which essentially meant that I was able to go in the cafeteria and pick my own menu. I'd just eat big, Mike. Meat, milk, eggs. I'd ingest wheat germ, liver tablets, Rheo Blair's protein powder. Oh, then there was the famous Bob Hoffman "Protein of the Sea." It tasted worse than rotten tuna. I bought that once and threw it out.
MD: BoHo! I had one bottle of Protein of the Sea and it sat in
my high school locker my entire senior year. I'd always live by the mantra of
"Just say no to taste," but with this stuff, "No" was most
definitely the word.
LD: (laughs)
Yup. That was it. I used Hoffman's weight gain product, it was loaded with fats
and protein, and with it I gained 15 pounds in two weeks as I had said earlier.
MD: I played some high school football, and also tried to train
with weights at the same time. I just felt beat to hell all the time. It was
tough. I am intrigued you were able to pound it on the gridiron and also
maintain your muscular mass with the weights at the same time.
 |
| At the 1983 Mr. Olympia in Munich, Germany |
MD: Well, the collegiate America is nothing to sneeze at.
LD: That's
true. In 1977, I did the AAU America for the first time, and I remember the
Weider brothers were there for the event. Joe was there to convince all the
bodybuilders to affiliate with the IFBB. We said no, and Joe was pissed. He
went on about how bodybuilding in the AAU was just like a poor, second sister
to weight lifting, and if' we'd come under the stewardship of the IFBB, bodybuilding
would be given it's deserved, singular attention as a separate entity. Still,
we voted this idea down. Ultimately and insidiously, he infiltrated his people
into the AAU, and, in the following few years, the AAU was completely removed.
By 1981, we were competing under the auspices of the NPC. Wayne Demelia, Jim
Manion, yeah. They took the title, but little of what was promised was
delivered.
MD: Upon mention of Joe, I must ask, since you enjoyed his
delightful protein so much, did you have any dealings with Bob Hoffman?
LD: When
I won the Mr. Collegiate America in Wisconsin, I did meet Bob. By this time, he
was pretty old, but he still was a big guy with a big frame. I remember him
approaching me, shaking my hand, and saying, "Where the heck did you come
from?" Other than that time, I never interacted with Bob.
MD: You started to have great success nationally, which brought
you to the world stage.
 |
| 1981 IFBB overall World Champion |
MD: And then Weider and the pros called...
LD: I
became an IFBB pro the following year. You know, I was training in Illinois
when Joe called. He wanted me to come out to California, and I told him I'd
consider it but really wasn't sold on the whole idea. Soon, Mike Mentzer called
me. Then Boyer Coe. They sang the virtues of transplanting to California. In
the summer of 1982, myself, Robby and Platz were guest posing at a show in San
Jose. Mentzer was covering the show for Weider, and he told me that out of the
three of us, I could win the Olympia, but I'd have to move to California. Mike,
I had a house payment to make, responsibilities. At the same time, I had heard
of guys going out there to do the Weider thing, and they'd end up becoming
bums. I remember doing a photo shoot with Kike Elomaa, and Joe was supervising
the shoot. He said to me, "Lance, look. People want the blue-eyed guy, the
blond, the guy like this with the great physique. People don't want blacks,
they certainly don't want foreigners. He mentioned that even while using Sergio
Oliva to spark his marketing, products wouldn't move like they would with a guy
like me. I'd only go to California for photo shoots. Joe did make me an offer,
and it was for a salary of two hundred dollars per week, along with free
advertising space in his magazines. Well, I hadn't products to sell, so I
didn't go with this. Boyer Coe, a great guy, told me, "Lance, you are done
in the IFBB. Nobody says no to Joe." I knew my long term future didn't
include bodybuilding. I was disappointed because I really thought I could win
the Olympia, but it became hard to get motivated. From that point on, I knew
they wouldn't let me do well in his shows.
At one point, I was
contacted by a fellow who ran independent shows. They'd benefit the Royal
Society of Mentally and Physically Handicapped. He wanted me to become involved, and I contacted the IFBB and related how great this would be and how
my participation would bring a positive light to the organization and to
bodybuilding in general. They told me if I got involved, I'd be summarily
suspended. This is when I resigned from the IFBB. It was 1984.
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LD: Yes.
In 84 and then 85, I took third in the NABBA Universe, losing to Ed Kawak and
then Brian Buchanan, respectively. I did win the NABBA Pro Universe in 1986, and
then retired. I did take another shot with the IFBB, and, upon Ben Weider
reinstating me in 1988, I placed sixth in the Chicago Pro Championships. This
was a curious situation, however. Richard Loresch was one of the judges, and he
had me in second place. Well, he was cornered in an elevator at the event venue
by Jim Manion and his people, and asked why he'd placed me as he did.
"Because that is the placing Lance deserved." After that, Rich was
out. No more judging for him.
I did the Arnold in
1989, which was won by Rich Gaspari. I got eighth, and shared a locker room
with Samir Bannout. Samir and his coach looked at me and said people would fall
to me that day. They thought even Rich would be subject to loss to me. At
prejudge, I wasn't even being called out. I talked to Joe who was there and he
merely said I'd been gone for a while, hadn't competed. It was the same old
story.
MD: Lance-at the time, what did you think of bodybuilding?
LD: Mike,
generally, up to 1988, at this time, nobody really had an ugly physique. Up
until the early nineties I'd say this held true. Now? Things are lost.
 |
| 1983 seminar. Madison, Wisconsin Sporting 23" arms |
MD: As we discussed, I remember you in 1980 doing a seminar I
attended at Cheach's Gym in North Haven, Connecticut. You were gigantic, in
shape, huge arms, articulate. You had a carved, detailed, tapered waste. Who'd
have thought of the devolvement of bodybuilding as we see it today?
LD: It's true and unfortunate.
MD: How about your family?
LD: My
father is now 83, and he is in good health and shape. My mother, not so, I am
afraid. She is dependent on many medications, and she is quite frail. She is
sadly a part of our very broken health care system. You know, with all of the
health care tomfoolery you hear about, its a very tangled web. Sorry to get a
bit off track here, but this involves my mother. It involves everyone,
actually. The health care system was going bankrupt, and the powers that be
knew they couldn't let this happen. So deductibles were raised. My family deductible is six thousand dollars per year. I pay $1,200 a month for my family
for health insurance. Now...well, there are record profits for the insurance
companies because they don't pay anything out. You know, the driving force for
the high cost of health care today is obesity and smoking. It's out of hand.
Did you know the average cost, just for yearly medications, for a diabetic is
fourteen thousand dollars per year?
MD: Insane. I am sure you see this first hand and regularly in
your business. You have your master's degree in nutrition, and your PhD as a
nutrition counselor. You work directly with the brilliant bob Gajda.
LD: I do. My business involves nutritional consultations and some physical training, as well. Most of my
clients are from physicians, and we work hard at reversing processes that have
gripped them and caused them sickness for often prolonged periods of time. We
witness many food addictions in clients. It is interesting that women have a
proclivity to be addicted to carbs, men, it's alcohol. These stimulate the same
centers in the brain. Clients text me their food journals, and doing so gives
them accountability. We attend to and recognize the emotional effects of food
as well. Both myself, and my wife, who works with me, are certified life
coaches. The majority of our clients receive programs of coaching for the
nutrition aspect, and exercise as well.
Here is an
interesting story. In 1981, the VP of the Chicago Health Club arranged a
meeting for me with Don Wildman, who was the president of the Health Tennis
Corporation. I told him that the next big move in the fitness industry was
personal training, and that he should let me head the charge into this new
world. Well, he was one of these rich guys who would let you know that you were
a poor guy. He was like, "I am right. You are wrong." He disagreed
with me. Of course, Don was wrong.
 |
| Impressive cover shot. Jan 1983 issue of Muscle Training Illustrated |
MD: It must be interesting to work with and be friends of a guy
like Bob Gajda.
LD: Bob
and I are putting together two programs. One will be to certify PHA trainers,
and this will be only offered to those individuals who have a college degree.
We are also looking into training centers offering PHA as well as nutirition
programs.
MD: PHA?
LD: Well,
I can tell you Bob Gajda will go into great detail about PHA with you when you
talk to him. All I can say is be prepared for that (laughs)! There are 696
secondary pumps to the heart in the body. The muscles. The premise is to move
and mobilize lactic acids in the body, facilitating recovery. A deconditioned
person can handle a PHA workout, the heart rate is controlled. There is much
less soreness in the ensuing days. Bob will go into great detail about this
with you.
MD: I'd better study up prior to my call to him. How are your
workouts today, Lance?
LD: I
go relatively heavy, five days per week. I can still do 100 pound dumbbell
presses. I did have both knees replaced not long ago. You know, I had surgery
on my clavicle some time ago, and during it they found that I had Valley Fever.
I didn't know I had this for four years. I was told my life would change upon
this diagnosis, and that I'd have to adopt a low carb diet. High carbs would
give the noxious microorganisms an ideal environment to thrive in, and low
carbs facilitate a healthier immune system. So this shapes my diet to this day.
 |
| Married for more than 30 years with wife Debbie |
LD: Thanks
Mike. My oldest son is 30 and he just got married in our back yard last week.
He is Lance, Jr., and he is 6'5". My son, Nathan, lives in Kansas City,
and he is in great shape. He'd do well in bodybuilding if I coached him. My son
Ryan is 6'1", is in ROTC, and is a sophomore in high school. My daugfhter,
Alyssa, is 16 and a freshman.
MD: Fantastic, Lance. It's always great to see the results of a
life well lived. I really want to thank you for your time and words. Please
tell Bob Gajda to take it easy on me when I call him!
LD: (laughs). Oh, I will Mike. And thanks
for thinking of me for an interview. I just want to say, for the young people
especially-bodybuilding is not a career. People will remember you for who you
are, not for what you did.
©,2015. Bodybuilding Mauritius. Any reprinting in any type of media is prohibited. Interview article published with permission from Dr. Michael Dusa (North Haven, Connecticut).
Thank you Dr. Michael Dusa and Dr. Lance Dreher for this fantastic interview
Best regards from
©,2015. Bodybuilding Mauritius. Any reprinting in any type of media is prohibited. Interview article published with permission from Dr. Michael Dusa (North Haven, Connecticut).
______________________________________________________________________________
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